For Chefs Who Want To Enjoy Their Careers Without Sacrificing Their Lives
Oct. 6, 2022

110: Building Highly Effective Hospitality Teams - Turning the Table

110: Building Highly Effective Hospitality Teams - Turning the Table
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Corporate Chef Ryan Dodge and Restauranteur Doug Newhook join Jim Taylor of Benchmark Sixty and Adam Lamb of Realignment Hospitality to discuss building highly effective restaurant teams and balancing the equation of motivation versus inspiration.

Connect with Doug or Chef Ryan by clicking this link

Turning the Table Is the most progressive weekly podcast for today's food and beverage industry, featuring staff-centric operating solutions for restaurants in the #newhospitalityculture.

Join Jim Taylor of Benchmark Sixty and Adam Lamb as they "turn the tables" on the prevailing operating assumptions of running a restaurant in favor of innovative solutions to our industry's most persistent challenges.

Sponsored by Benchmark Sixty Restaurant Services

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In partnership with Realignment Hospitality

Copyright 2023 Realignment Media

Transcript
Adam Lamb:

Welcome back to Turning the Table.

Adam Lamb:

This is episode one 10, Building Highly Effective Hospitality

Adam Lamb:

Teams sponsored by Benchmark 60.

Adam Lamb:

We ask that you share the show with someone you care about who

Adam Lamb:

can find this information useful.

Adam Lamb:

We are not only the most progressive restaurant podcast, but one of the

Adam Lamb:

fastest growing ones now breaking the top 100 business podcasts

Adam Lamb:

charts in both the UK and Australia.

Adam Lamb:

We'll have our guests on Doug Newhook, , Chop House, and Corporate

Adam Lamb:

Ryan Dodge of a Lifetime Fitness.

Adam Lamb:

But before we bring them on, I want to introduce my cohost,

Adam Lamb:

Jim Taylor Benchmark Sixty.

Jim Taylor:

Hey Adam how you doing?

Adam Lamb:

am very, I'm very good.

Adam Lamb:

And a quick shout out to some of our faithful listeners, such as

Adam Lamb:

Patrick McClury, Allison o Larry Creon, Shane LOLer Bing, Oliver,

Adam Lamb:

Jessica, Laura, Dustin, oer, Chris.

Adam Lamb:

, That's or Brady Sloan . And we've got Doug Newhook joining our stream

Adam Lamb:

and today's question is how to build a highly effective hospitality team.

Adam Lamb:

We're probably gonna go in a lot of different places.

Adam Lamb:

Jim, what do you think is kind of up for you as a question about this topic?

Jim Taylor:

Well, I mean, it's.

Jim Taylor:

I, there's so many different places we could start.

Jim Taylor:

One of the things that I'm, I'm actually looking forward to having

Jim Taylor:

some discussion about today is I had a conversation with a guy yesterday who

Jim Taylor:

was talking about his belief is that you can lead from one of two places.

Jim Taylor:

You can lead from love or you can lead from fear.

Jim Taylor:

And he was like, There's nowhere in the middle.

Jim Taylor:

It's love or fear.

Jim Taylor:

And that hit me really hard and has stuck with me.

Jim Taylor:

And so I think we'll end, end up in some interesting discussion about one

Jim Taylor:

of those, or both of those types of you know, opposite ends of the spectrum today.

Jim Taylor:

So, looking forward to the discussion.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

And the other thing it just seems like I, I don't know if it's just weird

Adam Lamb:

timing, but over the last several days I've gotten quite a few comments

Adam Lamb:

and direct messages a, around this.

Adam Lamb:

This viewpoint that some hospitality professionals have that basically

Adam Lamb:

wanna shit on everybody that's coming up in the industry.

Adam Lamb:

And everybody's kind of jumping on that bandwagon that they don't have the

Adam Lamb:

right work ethic and yada yada yada.

Adam Lamb:

And I've never believed that that's true.

Adam Lamb:

Because we've been dealing this, you know, probably I I, as far as I know since

Adam Lamb:

the eighties and I know chef Ryan had.

Adam Lamb:

An industry interesting comment that, you know, this has been

Adam Lamb:

going on for centuries and has its roots in the masculine feminine.

Adam Lamb:

So without any further ado, I want to add both Chef Ryan Dodge and Doug Newkirk.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah,

Doug Newhook:

for the record.

Doug Newhook:

gents I haven't seen that man's face about 52 pounds ago was last time I saw.

Adam Lamb:

I, I, I know he's your, Yeah, we can hear you.

Adam Lamb:

Perfect man.

Adam Lamb:

I know he's, He's a large presence in your life.

Adam Lamb:

So I really appreciate the fact that, again, you're, you yoked him up.

Adam Lamb:

So Doug I wanna start with you because I had a conversation with

Adam Lamb:

Chef yesterday and he mentioned this uneven equation, like how to balance

Adam Lamb:

the equation with hospitality teams.

Adam Lamb:

And the first thing that popped up into my head was, you know, what's the difference

Adam Lamb:

between motivation and inspiration?

Adam Lamb:

Because you've got teams that you lead.

Adam Lamb:

. Doug Newhook: Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

. Well, I mean, there's a couple of different components.

Adam Lamb:

Motivation is obviously personal to that, that individual, right?

Adam Lamb:

You gotta dig a little deep to find out what gets them out of bed.

Adam Lamb:

You gotta dig a little deep to find out what are the things

Adam Lamb:

that kind of excites them.

Adam Lamb:

And, and, and ironically, when I do my hiring process, I actually go right

Adam Lamb:

into that and I, and I really try to, Understand these people from the minute

Adam Lamb:

I meet them and I don't wanna understand them inside of a restaurant, I wanna

Adam Lamb:

understand them in their real life.

Adam Lamb:

So the things that motivate them aren't the service aspect

Adam Lamb:

of inside of a dining room.

Adam Lamb:

It's not the cocktails that they're pouring, it's, it's the things that

Adam Lamb:

they do outside of that establishment.

Adam Lamb:

So they're able to bring a hundred percent of themselves into the room.

Adam Lamb:

So I start, the minute I meet people, my interview process starts with

Adam Lamb:

making it a conversation about them.

Adam Lamb:

And I want to know everything I can about them with within a

Adam Lamb:

certain parameter so that I could inevitably use that to help them grow.

Adam Lamb:

Nine times outta 10.

Adam Lamb:

People don't even know that they have that ability.

Adam Lamb:

They just, they just start talking.

Adam Lamb:

And then there's the folks that tell you that they do meditation, you ask 'em

Adam Lamb:

about it, and then they kind of say, Well, I'm gonna, And then there's the folks

Adam Lamb:

that tell you, I like, I like to read and I read 13 books in the last month.

Adam Lamb:

And then you start talking about a book that they love, and then

Adam Lamb:

you're always able to reference that sort of dialogue later.

Adam Lamb:

Excellent.

Adam Lamb:

Chef, the question as you popped off was insofar as your professional experience.

Adam Lamb:

What's the difference between motivation and inspiration?

Ryan Dodge:

Wow, what a profound question.

Ryan Dodge:

. Mm-hmm.

Ryan Dodge:

, I've wrestled with this notion quite a bit recently in my own career.

Ryan Dodge:

However, I would state that there's two words that I hear that I,

Ryan Dodge:

they're like trigger words for me.

Ryan Dodge:

Mm-hmm.

Ryan Dodge:

, and one is excited.

Ryan Dodge:

And the other one is frustrated.

Ryan Dodge:

They're like trigger words because I find that there's a great deal of

Ryan Dodge:

presentation of what the potential opportunity looks like that people

Ryan Dodge:

get quote unquote excited about.

Ryan Dodge:

Then there's the follow up to excitement, which feels like a

Ryan Dodge:

juxtaposition, which is frustration and the reason that the frustration.

Ryan Dodge:

is there is because the pitch that they were given that they were excited

Ryan Dodge:

about isn't what it actually is, and I think that it does people a

Ryan Dodge:

disservice to over bill the profound lessons that will be learned within

Ryan Dodge:

hospitality or within this industry.

Ryan Dodge:

As easy or something that's gonna come, like a light strike of lightning to them

Ryan Dodge:

in any circumstance, or elevate them immediately without putting in the work.

Ryan Dodge:

And I don't think that we honestly do a good representation of allowing the

Ryan Dodge:

process of work and allowing the process of learning to be a part of what we're

Ryan Dodge:

sincerely selling in this industry.

Ryan Dodge:

And so I would say the difference between motivation.

Ryan Dodge:

motivation.

Ryan Dodge:

You can motivate someone with money.

Ryan Dodge:

You can motivate somebody financially.

Ryan Dodge:

You can motivate them with a future place in their career.

Ryan Dodge:

If you do this, you'll earn that.

Ryan Dodge:

Inspiration is living and demonstrating the example, showing what's possible.

Ryan Dodge:

Inspiring that if I actually participate, listen and.

Ryan Dodge:

I can achieve what this person is able to achieve through sheer

Ryan Dodge:

grit will and determination.

Ryan Dodge:

And so I think that motivation can be manipulation.

Ryan Dodge:

Inspiration is genuine and authentic.

Ryan Dodge:

. Adam Lamb: That's, that's pretty juicy.

Ryan Dodge:

And Jim, you know, you've spent 20 years, you know, building highly effective

Ryan Dodge:

teams for one of the most progressive restaurant companies in Canada.

Ryan Dodge:

What's your take on it?

Jim Taylor:

Well, how do I follow up with said

Jim Taylor:

. Adam Lamb: I mean, that's, You

Doug Newhook:

gotta dig, you gotta dig deep, jim,

Jim Taylor:

that's, that's bang on, right?

Jim Taylor:

I mean, I think we talked about this on one of the other One of our other

Jim Taylor:

discussions, Adam, about the idea that, and I was challenged with this by a mentor

Jim Taylor:

of mine years ago that basically said if the people you work with don't love

Jim Taylor:

coming to work with you specifically, You're not gonna be successful.

Jim Taylor:

And so I think there's a combination of being able to, you know, motivate people

Jim Taylor:

in a, in a genuine way and being able to inspire people to want to try to do more.

Jim Taylor:

That kind of comes along with that.

Jim Taylor:

But that, that thought process of when they see my name on the schedule

Jim Taylor:

running the shift, or when they know that I'm the general manager of the

Jim Taylor:

restaurant or whatever that might be, if they're not excited about

Jim Taylor:

that part, about working alongside, then there's a gonna be a problem.

Jim Taylor:

That became a filter for me through my whole career and, and you know, still

Jim Taylor:

does around, if people don't love working with you, then you're gonna have a

Jim Taylor:

problem because it changes For me, it changed the way that I asked questions,

Jim Taylor:

gave feedback, promoted people, hired people, terminated, I mean, everything.

Jim Taylor:

Right?

Jim Taylor:

It was, and actually the challenge at the beginning was, B posed me in a way

Jim Taylor:

where I actually had to terminate somebody one day when I was a fairly new manager.

Jim Taylor:

And this mentor of mine said, You know, I bet you can't.

Jim Taylor:

Well, maybe not, I bet.

Jim Taylor:

But I challenge you to go into that conversation with that person, with

Jim Taylor:

the intention that when you're con, when you're finished with that meeting

Jim Taylor:

where you're terminating this person's employment, that they stand up, they

Jim Taylor:

shake your hand and they say thank you.

Jim Taylor:

And for me, I was going.

Jim Taylor:

How is that even possible?

Jim Taylor:

But I think that, anyway, that became a filter for me for my whole career

Jim Taylor:

around motivating, trying to motivate and inspire people to have a positive

Jim Taylor:

work environment and enjoy working

Adam Lamb:

with the people they work with.

Adam Lamb:

So did that person get up and shake your hand at the end of that meeting?

Jim Taylor:

Actually, we're, we're still friends.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

, you know, I've, I've always felt that you know, A termination can be an

Adam Lamb:

absolute positive action for both.

Adam Lamb:

Not only the person that's being terminated, but also the crew.

Adam Lamb:

And walking into that particular situation as a positive thing, as

Adam Lamb:

opposed to a negative thing can often shift the energy as well.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

And chef, I wanted to come back to you because yesterday you said something

Adam Lamb:

about this unequal equation that really kind of rocked me a little bit

Adam Lamb:

and had me thinking about it all day.

Adam Lamb:

And I want to be conscious of, you know, our time, but I think it

Adam Lamb:

really would serve this conversation for you to kind of go into that

Adam Lamb:

a little bit, if you're willing.

Ryan Dodge:

Absolutely.

Ryan Dodge:

Adam, if you could jar my memory a little bit.

Ryan Dodge:

We were talking about a lot and we were kind of talking about it

Ryan Dodge:

I think before, but maybe set the table for me cuz I can go along.

Adam Lamb:

It was, it was about you.

Adam Lamb:

Kind of leads back to what you were saying about us have doing a poor job at

Adam Lamb:

communicating effectively what a life in this industry could look like and that

Adam Lamb:

we haven't done a very good job at being able to communicate effectively that, you

Adam Lamb:

know, there's a certain amount of maturity that comes when you're 20 years in.

Adam Lamb:

That you're not gonna have in the first five or 10 years.

Adam Lamb:

And how that maturity shifts your outlook, not only as you as a professional, but the

Adam Lamb:

way you're connecting with everybody else.

Adam Lamb:

And you were talking about, you know, climbing this mountain of, because

Adam Lamb:

you motivate currently how many people are under that you are responsible for

Ryan Dodge:

in your business.

Ryan Dodge:

During the summer, it was this ti it was like up to 3,500 employees across

Ryan Dodge:

the country and in Canada, but it.

Ryan Dodge:

It was significant.

Ryan Dodge:

We have a, we have an additional business that we offer outside of, in

Ryan Dodge:

our pools, but I think I'm, I think I'm grasping and I can kind of put

Ryan Dodge:

myself back into that conversation.

Ryan Dodge:

Mm-hmm.

Ryan Dodge:

, I think that we have created somewhat of a lopsided scenario within our industry.

Ryan Dodge:

And that is we, we have such a, a vast swath of different.

Ryan Dodge:

Offerings.

Ryan Dodge:

I mean, you look at everything from grocery to fast casual to fine dining.

Ryan Dodge:

These one off locations, these corporate locations, these, these places that

Ryan Dodge:

do the same sandwich, day in, day out, the same salad, day in, day out.

Ryan Dodge:

And essentially when we go to hire a lot of the time, what we've

Ryan Dodge:

created is we've created a margin.

Ryan Dodge:

Profitability margin that is so narrow and we can only afford labor.

Ryan Dodge:

At a really opening rate.

Ryan Dodge:

I mean, it is, it is a disservice because we can't afford a lot of

Ryan Dodge:

the experience or quality experience that comes in time with the industry.

Ryan Dodge:

And as you acquire more experience, you grow.

Ryan Dodge:

So we, we bring in a very base level, entry level experience, which ultimately

Ryan Dodge:

leads to what's popular, which is.

Ryan Dodge:

The fast casual simplicity is make it simple, stupid Doug, new hook term

Ryan Dodge:

monkey with a football like that.

Ryan Dodge:

Easy . And it's really dumbed down really the, the.

Ryan Dodge:

Other proposition of the dining etiquette for people to endure those experiences

Ryan Dodge:

and say, I wanna stay in this industry.

Ryan Dodge:

I wanna stay doing this.

Ryan Dodge:

We've done.

Ryan Dodge:

Industry a disservice because there's no attraction, there's no future,

Ryan Dodge:

there's no feeling of tangible.

Ryan Dodge:

Like I've acquired a new skill that I want to grow off of where you can

Ryan Dodge:

take it to another environment where people like myself and you guys have,

Ryan Dodge:

have grown our, our livelihoods or our, in, in this industry where we've

Ryan Dodge:

had experiences in the, the highest level, Milan, you name it, across the

Ryan Dodge:

country, across the, the, the world and experience those kind of experiences.

Ryan Dodge:

That that isn't being realized in this kind of modern quick service,

Ryan Dodge:

fast casual environment that is, is showing people what other, We talked

Ryan Dodge:

about this to a length yesterday, and I think maybe this is where you were

Ryan Dodge:

taking me, was like mentorship, somebody that you learned under, somebody

Ryan Dodge:

that you learned this skill, The etiquette, the verbiage, the technique.

Ryan Dodge:

I mean, when I watched Joon and, and Julia Child, I imagine.

Ryan Dodge:

No one in, in this generation's interested in listening to these two people like

Ryan Dodge:

fumble through this old classic technique and, and building a bouquet garney

Ryan Dodge:

and spiking pearl onions with clothes.

Ryan Dodge:

I mean, I, I don't, It's, it's gone, It's lost.

Ryan Dodge:

Completely lost in translation.

Ryan Dodge:

Shit.

Ryan Dodge:

Comes in a bag and you heat it in a microwave.

Ryan Dodge:

Mm-hmm.

Ryan Dodge:

, like, I don't, I'm not getting juiced up by, . Yeah.

Ryan Dodge:

Yeah.

Ryan Dodge:

That the bare minimum.

Adam Lamb:

Doug, I think, Do you mind if I touch on No, please.

Adam Lamb:

I was gonna, I was gonna kick it to you cuz I think he's singing your song

Doug Newhook:

well.

Doug Newhook:

Yeah, he is.

Doug Newhook:

And, and I think what, you know, DOJ and I had the pleasure of working

Doug Newhook:

with each other for quite some time.

Doug Newhook:

And the first time we met, you know, we're talking about an

Doug Newhook:

executive chef who obviously we spoke about for 3,500 team members.

Doug Newhook:

The first time we met he was in the inside of the kitchen and I was in the.

Doug Newhook:

That was the very first time we met.

Doug Newhook:

So here you have somebody who's worked his tail off from the ground up,

Doug Newhook:

still throwing on the apron, still working the line with the team, still

Doug Newhook:

getting to know their names, and then remembering them when he comes back.

Doug Newhook:

You know, I think one of the things that we have done a poor job as an

Doug Newhook:

industry is that we don't make the.

Doug Newhook:

The roles that we hold look good.

Doug Newhook:

And it's something that do, and I used to say all the time, like, you

Doug Newhook:

know when, when you have a leader or a manager or somebody in the zone who

Doug Newhook:

just doesn't enjoy it and just allows their mental state to take over, they're

Doug Newhook:

not glorifying the role and making it attractive to the people that may

Doug Newhook:

have it in the back of their head.

Doug Newhook:

Hey, I think I'm gonna be good.

Doug Newhook:

One of the things that Dodge and I used to really just bring to the table was

Doug Newhook:

like, you gotta figure out a way to navigate around yourself so that you can

Doug Newhook:

make this feel and look appealing to not only, you know, the, the team members,

Doug Newhook:

but the, the customers or the members.

Doug Newhook:

And then internally it's gonna make you feel good in the long run cuz

Doug Newhook:

you know, you do, there's a certain component of acting and fake it till

Doug Newhook:

you make it that you have to provide.

Doug Newhook:

But there is a level of, in order to motivate or inspire someone, You gotta,

Doug Newhook:

you gotta battle through the adversity and you gotta make it look good.

Doug Newhook:

And then you got a guy like Dodge, who at any level of his career, slaps

Doug Newhook:

on an APR and, and goes into the back and stands next to the, the, the guy

Doug Newhook:

that just started two days ago and remembers his name two months later.

Doug Newhook:

And that's a certain thing that a lot of people, when they get to a certain

Doug Newhook:

level, they won't even think about the na, the apron, the name tag, the uniform,

Doug Newhook:

and him, And I remember we drove up to Boston four hour car drive from new.

Doug Newhook:

And we just spent two days working his own with a bunch of kids from Massachusetts

Doug Newhook:

and it was the greatest two days ever.

Doug Newhook:

He was on the line, I was in the front.

Doug Newhook:

We were just doing our thing and, but what that brought was a level of

Doug Newhook:

inspiration to the people around us.

Doug Newhook:

I mean, there's a guy that we worked with that day who's currently a

Doug Newhook:

director of operations with, with Ryan.

Doug Newhook:

So I think that there's a certain level of ownership that managers and leaders inside

Doug Newhook:

of these four walls need to understand.

Doug Newhook:

You gotta figure out how to make it look good if you want to grow people with you.

Doug Newhook:

And then ultimately, It's gonna help you battle through those tough times.

Adam Lamb:

There's a lot to chew on and, and just what both of you guys have said.

Adam Lamb:

And for me, it comes down to.

Adam Lamb:

You know, what does it look like to model mature professionalism for people

Adam Lamb:

who are actually looking for that?

Adam Lamb:

Because I get that, you know, there's always gonna be a dishwasher

Adam Lamb:

or a pantry person who's very comfortable being a pantry person

Adam Lamb:

and does a great job in that space.

Adam Lamb:

And how do you make them feel as, as valuable as say, you know, the sous

Adam Lamb:

chef or the first cook who's the sharpest knife in the, in the drawer,

Adam Lamb:

but might be, you know, Exhibiting some uninitiated behavior, right?

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

and might need to have somebody pull him underneath his wing and say,

Adam Lamb:

Hey it's time to smarten up brother.

Adam Lamb:

Cuz you know, your skill's only gonna take you that far.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

chef.

Ryan Dodge:

You know, these are great topics.

Ryan Dodge:

I think Doug, what you referenced in our experience together is amazing.

Ryan Dodge:

And I know this, I know that when I come into a space, That my personality

Ryan Dodge:

and my ability to connect and my knowledge, it's, it looms large

Ryan Dodge:

in a way that can create a vacuum.

Ryan Dodge:

And so what I have learned to do is I've learned to have my own.

Ryan Dodge:

So I, I, I a hundred percent agree with that.

Ryan Dodge:

Listen, if somebody's completely satisfied, In their life, and they're

Ryan Dodge:

satisfied in their hours that they work and they're consistent in their job.

Ryan Dodge:

And the only time that you need to like really check in on them is just in

Ryan Dodge:

passing because they've got it on lock and they're not looking for anymore,

Ryan Dodge:

which I've had those employees and I, and I love them, and they're the backbone.

Ryan Dodge:

They're the under, they're the underdog, like superheroes of our industry.

Ryan Dodge:

People don't see that, don't, don't, aren't looking for accolades, but

Ryan Dodge:

you, you find a way to include them in your own journey and in your own life.

Ryan Dodge:

And I think that for me, continuing to be curious, continuing to be

Ryan Dodge:

a seeker and an understanding of different concepts, different.

Ryan Dodge:

Process different for me recently, and I've shared this with you in, in Adam,

Ryan Dodge:

you and I connected on this experience where you did 75 hard and had this

Ryan Dodge:

profound kind of you doing 75 hard.

Ryan Dodge:

And sharing that experience with somebody, like in the process of the Daily Connect

Ryan Dodge:

and where you're at with that, we, we have no idea how impactful that is for

Ryan Dodge:

that person to think about their own life and outside of work, what's important

Ryan Dodge:

and the value that they take forward and challenging themselves to do other things.

Ryan Dodge:

And I think that my personal, what I've been successful with Feeling successful

Ryan Dodge:

with, with myself is continuing to grow.

Ryan Dodge:

And as I grow, I can observe around me an environment that's created, that's

Ryan Dodge:

a nurturing environment for others

Adam Lamb:

to grow.

Adam Lamb:

And so what I'm hearing you say is, you know, in that process of growth, you're

Adam Lamb:

actually sharing that with people that you're elbow to elbow with and Yeah, I.

Adam Lamb:

Connected to the point or to the fact that this sounds like a lot of back of

Adam Lamb:

the house stuff, but everything we're talking about is applicable to the front

Adam Lamb:

of the house, the back of the house at, at a unit level, at a corporate level.

Adam Lamb:

Jim, I see, I see the wheels turning.

Adam Lamb:

I'm interested in your feedback about what you're hearing.

Adam Lamb:

Well, it, it

Jim Taylor:

sounds like, and you know, not to put it back on, on Chef

Jim Taylor:

Dodge, but I'm, I'm curious, you, you mentioned this looming large thing and.

Jim Taylor:

. You know, I know from when I first started in restaurants that there

Jim Taylor:

were, I looked at some of the people that I worked with that were in, you

Jim Taylor:

know, positions of responsibility or in management or ownership, and I

Jim Taylor:

thought like, you know, I was hooked on the industry at that point already.

Jim Taylor:

So I looked at these people thinking, A, I want to be like that, and B,

Jim Taylor:

I'm terrified of this person or this image, or whatever it might be.

Jim Taylor:

Whether it was the chef or the owner or something.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

So I'm actually curious about how.

Jim Taylor:

With 3,500 employees.

Jim Taylor:

I mean, if I'm a new employee in your environment, I'm terrified.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

Just knowing that.

Jim Taylor:

Mm-hmm.

Jim Taylor:

How do you, how do you bring that down?

Jim Taylor:

What, what do you have actual go to things that you try to do to,

Jim Taylor:

you know, soften that experience for people so they don't tiptoe

Ryan Dodge:

around you?

Ryan Dodge:

I love that question.

Ryan Dodge:

As far as tiptoeing around me, one of the things that I think.

Ryan Dodge:

Our responsibility as the elder statesmen of the industry is to demonstrate

Ryan Dodge:

health in a way that has long since been forgotten in our industry.

Ryan Dodge:

Our burnout rate for our you know, look across our, the scope of our.

Ryan Dodge:

Industry and look at the amount of people who are just burnt, crispy when you allow

Ryan Dodge:

a lot of the toxicity of the environment.

Ryan Dodge:

Which is a relentless environment.

Ryan Dodge:

It is a nonstop environment.

Ryan Dodge:

You may turn off the gas, but you it's, it's something that's

Ryan Dodge:

coming for you every time.

Ryan Dodge:

And it goes to the front.

Ryan Dodge:

It goes to the back.

Ryan Dodge:

There's theft, there's an, there's relationships, there's harassment,

Ryan Dodge:

there's, I mean, you name it, we, we deal with every element of life

Ryan Dodge:

from human resources to internal.

Ryan Dodge:

Problems and, and we deal with people as they come.

Ryan Dodge:

They, they don't necessarily leave their shit at the door.

Ryan Dodge:

And so one of the most difficult things I think for us is these

Ryan Dodge:

elder statement is to remain humble.

Ryan Dodge:

And the story that you were talking about, Adam, I believe you mentioned it

Ryan Dodge:

or touched on it, is like, I started in the dish room, I remember at 14 years

Ryan Dodge:

old in the pizza place coming in, getting trained in by a guy who, who was more

Ryan Dodge:

interested in smoking heaters on the back dock than doing any of the dishes.

Ryan Dodge:

And I remember thinking, Man, that that's gross and I don't wanna do dishes.

Ryan Dodge:

And I remember.

Ryan Dodge:

All the waitresses and waiters and people coming back that were like looking at

Ryan Dodge:

me like, Aren't you gonna do the dishes?

Ryan Dodge:

And I was like, Not only am I gonna do the dishes, but I'm gonna

Ryan Dodge:

fucking throw down on this space.

Ryan Dodge:

Like I'm gonna make it so that you wanna come back here.

Ryan Dodge:

I'm gonna make it so that this is the coolest little area to hang out.

Ryan Dodge:

Not, not that back dock.

Ryan Dodge:

We're all used , so.

Ryan Dodge:

There's an unhealthy aspect to the industry that's almost encouraged, whether

Ryan Dodge:

that's the alcoholism, the drugs, the, you know, some of my best experiences where

Ryan Dodge:

my, my, my experiences with those things.

Ryan Dodge:

Don't get me wrong, I wanna acknowledge that that's a rite of passage.

Ryan Dodge:

I believe in some certain, in a certain . Thank you realm.

Ryan Dodge:

I mean, it's a R of passage.

Ryan Dodge:

I don't want to be over, over like, Saying that I'm judgemental

Ryan Dodge:

toward that at all because I'm not.

Ryan Dodge:

I'm actually, I encourage everyone to experience what the industry is so that

Ryan Dodge:

they know that there's a future beyond it.

Ryan Dodge:

Because the burnout ratio, again, like I said, is high and it is in every

Ryan Dodge:

aspect from dive bars to American standard cuisine to the fines.

Ryan Dodge:

Five star Michelin restaurants from standards to execution to just the

Ryan Dodge:

overall amount of hours of sleep you get from being on your feet for 16 hours.

Ryan Dodge:

I mean, you're looking for the, you're looking for the pill,

Ryan Dodge:

you're looking for the relief.

Ryan Dodge:

And I get it.

Ryan Dodge:

Once you graduate from that and you can find like health and

Ryan Dodge:

balance within boundaries that you create, you trust other people.

Ryan Dodge:

Because what I've done in that looming large piece that you were just touching

Ryan Dodge:

on and I wanna address is, If I'm there, like all, eventually people will be like,

Ryan Dodge:

Well, he's here so he'll take care of it.

Ryan Dodge:

He has the answer.

Ryan Dodge:

So it's almost as if I'm keeping them from making the mistake or making the

Ryan Dodge:

decision, or learning how to make a solution oriented decision on the spot.

Ryan Dodge:

Because if I'm there, then my voice is gonna be louder than everybody else's.

Ryan Dodge:

My solution's gonna be the stamp.

Ryan Dodge:

I, I've been here, I I have this, You need it and it's your turn.

Ryan Dodge:

And so you graduate to a, from a certain level.

Ryan Dodge:

And if you don't trust people, then you don't allow.

Ryan Dodge:

If you don't trust that, they're gonna fail and figure it out from the failure

Ryan Dodge:

which is in, which is our industry.

Ryan Dodge:

And a nutshell, failure and figuring it out.

Ryan Dodge:

Go give somebody a rib eye and tell 'em to cook a medium rare for the first time.

Ryan Dodge:

It doesn't.

Ryan Dodge:

They don't know New York strip versus rib I versus filet versus

Ryan Dodge:

terrace versus short ribs.

Ryan Dodge:

Like they don't know these techniques.

Ryan Dodge:

They gotta teach 'em.

Ryan Dodge:

So how they get, and we gotta trust 'em.

Ryan Dodge:

That's a big risk for us.

Ryan Dodge:

That's cost.

Ryan Dodge:

So we wanna overman this solution all the time because we don't wanna risk it.

Ryan Dodge:

But then we never move forward and they don't grow and we continue to kind of have

Ryan Dodge:

that looming where that looming figure.

Ryan Dodge:

We should be a looming figure in that.

Ryan Dodge:

What would he do based off of what I've seen, but allow them to grow and learn.

Ryan Dodge:

Well put,

Adam Lamb:

And again, I wanna be conscious of our time because this show is meant

Adam Lamb:

to not only talk about the issues that are going on, but also to offer some

Adam Lamb:

concrete steps that an operator can take back into their operation this weekend.

Adam Lamb:

So I want to kind of end our conversation because I know that there's just so

Adam Lamb:

much more to be talked about which is why, you know, I think Jim and.

Adam Lamb:

Love to have you guys back for, you know, part two and part

Adam Lamb:

three of this conversation.

Adam Lamb:

Absolutely.

Adam Lamb:

But if each of you were to give one particular tip that's worked for you,

Adam Lamb:

maybe somebody's got an operation, they're short staffed, people are

Adam Lamb:

starting to get burnt you can feel the threads starting to spin apart.

Adam Lamb:

What's one or two actions that they can actually take going back

Adam Lamb:

in and pulling everybody together if, if only for the short term.

Adam Lamb:

Knowing the risks the problems.

Adam Lamb:

I spoke to Scott Turner yesterday from Aden Hospitality where he's telling

Adam Lamb:

me that the, the energy crisis in England is so bad that these coffee

Adam Lamb:

shops are going from $2,000 a month in energy costs to 9,000 if they can

Adam Lamb:

find, And these guys are like, I, you know, I'm losing $4,000 a month.

Adam Lamb:

I might as well just close my doors.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

. So there's a lot going against us.

Adam Lamb:

There always has been.

Adam Lamb:

Doug, what's one or two things that you could probably offer that might

Adam Lamb:

prove beneficial to bringing everybody together, if not in service to the

Adam Lamb:

mission and ins, service to one another?

Adam Lamb:

I, I

Doug Newhook:

mean, like, like Don said earlier, I like to simplify things.

Doug Newhook:

So in, in, in real summary, I make sure that I treat every

Doug Newhook:

single person like a human being.

Doug Newhook:

I know everyone's.

Doug Newhook:

I want to look at them dead in their eye.

Doug Newhook:

I wanna say 'em.

Doug Newhook:

Thank, Thank you for doing their job.

Doug Newhook:

I thank them throughout the experience.

Doug Newhook:

If I'm an owner and I have satellite places, I'm gonna make sure my

Doug Newhook:

management team knows their names.

Doug Newhook:

Every single person's name shakes, every single person's hand when

Doug Newhook:

they get there says goodbye to every single person when they leave.

Doug Newhook:

A lot of people just sneak out the back door and they're.

Doug Newhook:

And the reality is, I think that we have to start going back to humanity.

Doug Newhook:

Treat people like humans.

Doug Newhook:

Just be kind and be friendly.

Doug Newhook:

It's not gonna pay your rent quicker, but it's sure is, sure is.

Doug Newhook:

You're gonna make a, the environment better for those folks inside.

Ryan Dodge:

Chef,

Adam Lamb:

as you're gazing out your window, he's gonna get a haku

Doug Newhook:

ready.

Doug Newhook:

Adam, get ready.

Doug Newhook:

That'd be good.

Ryan Dodge:

Well, no, I, I So you, you gave an example of a situ.

Ryan Dodge:

and if I were to give any advice to somebody going through what

Ryan Dodge:

you were talking about, the thread or being, you gotta, you gotta

Ryan Dodge:

pull the team together in a way.

Ryan Dodge:

I, I think that the group as a whole, none of, none of any of us do anything

Ryan Dodge:

in this industry by ourselves.

Ryan Dodge:

We have to have an entire.

Ryan Dodge:

Staff moving in the same direction.

Ryan Dodge:

If we have this, this wide scope of people on every position, they

Ryan Dodge:

have to be moving toward the same.

Ryan Dodge:

They all have to move this direction toward the, toward the same target.

Ryan Dodge:

And if they don't know the ob, they don't know the obstacle.

Ryan Dodge:

If they're not aware that we're up against prices that are gonna erode our

Ryan Dodge:

margin, that may potentially keep us from having a business at all, then then.

Ryan Dodge:

For whatever reason, they're just kind of going to continue

Ryan Dodge:

to go through the motions.

Ryan Dodge:

But if you can, you gotta be able to share in a way that doesn't

Ryan Dodge:

create fear or create competitive nature within the group, but you've

Ryan Dodge:

gotta be able to be transparent.

Ryan Dodge:

And I think the transparency of what we're all up against is one of the,

Ryan Dodge:

being vulnerable to the transparency, not being a victim to it, but bringing

Ryan Dodge:

everybody in so that they can offer up what their solution is, be heard by the

Ryan Dodge:

group without judgment, without fear.

Ryan Dodge:

And if that's something that you're able to do and you have a group of

Ryan Dodge:

people that are actually able to sit in a room and have a conversation, and

Ryan Dodge:

this is an investment, again, like I said, you got, if you're gonna make

Ryan Dodge:

an investment in energy, you better make an investment in your people.

Ryan Dodge:

If the people that are working together can't communicate in a room talking

Ryan Dodge:

about what we're up against, then they sure shit aren't gonna be able to do it.

Ryan Dodge:

When the, when the fire is on and when the orders are coming in, how are you gonna

Ryan Dodge:

be able to do it then if you can't do it?

Ryan Dodge:

So I would bring the people together.

Ryan Dodge:

I would offer up what we're up against.

Ryan Dodge:

I would allow them to understand and articulate back what's at stake

Ryan Dodge:

and what are we gonna do about it.

Ryan Dodge:

And I would empower them and give them the autonomy to make a decision that

Ryan Dodge:

moment, whether they're gonna go into this thing with me, or if they're gonna

Ryan Dodge:

hit the street now because we are not going into this thing with weak links.

Ryan Dodge:

We're going into this thing or we're not.

Ryan Dodge:

You're with me or you.

Ryan Dodge:

And I think it's that easy.

Ryan Dodge:

I think people get to make the choice.

Ryan Dodge:

We're desperate.

Ryan Dodge:

If we let people come in that are dragging us down, we're desperate.

Ryan Dodge:

We've given up.

Ryan Dodge:

So you're either gonna go in this weekend and fight with a group of people that

Ryan Dodge:

are there to fight with you, that have your six, you're 12, you're three,

Ryan Dodge:

you're nine, or you're going in blind.

Ryan Dodge:

And if you don't have Hammerhead 360 peripheral, then you're gonna get.

Adam Lamb:

Head on, head on, head on a swivel head on a swivel chef.

Adam Lamb:

Are you hiring

Adam Lamb:

? Jim Taylor: You move to,

Adam Lamb:

come work with you.

Adam Lamb:

That brings up a great point because I asked Chef yesterday are you on social?

Adam Lamb:

And he said, No.

Adam Lamb:

And he said, That's deliberate.

Adam Lamb:

I don't want any distractions.

Adam Lamb:

But it begs the question, Chef, if someone wants to get a hold of you, even just to

Adam Lamb:

follow up this conversation, how do they.

Doug Newhook:

Reach out to me.

Doug Newhook:

I'll get, I'll pass it off.

Doug Newhook:

Just

Ryan Dodge:

kidding you, , your phone's gonna blow up.

Ryan Dodge:

I'm a bit of a, I'm a bit of a enigma in that sense.

Ryan Dodge:

I, I, my energy is, I'm very selective with my energy and I've

Ryan Dodge:

been irresponsible with it in the past, and I've been, it's been taken.

Ryan Dodge:

Not with any, without any, I mean, it's lessons of life and so I think

Ryan Dodge:

that there's a great social connection that's happening through these different

Ryan Dodge:

places, but you can get ahold of me.

Ryan Dodge:

And my name is Ryan Dodge, and you can, I, I guess that I, I'm not on anything

Ryan Dodge:

other than LinkedIn, but yeah, to your point, you can get ahold of Doug, but

Ryan Dodge:

I, I literally intentionally do that.

Ryan Dodge:

I'm not trying to personify some sort of fraud, and I, and I worked

Ryan Dodge:

for Gary Danko back in the day, and one of the most profound things, we

Ryan Dodge:

went to the Masters of Food and Wine.

Ryan Dodge:

It was the 21st annual Masters of Food and Wine in Carmel,

Ryan Dodge:

California, and it was the last one.

Ryan Dodge:

That they did and it was a great experience and it was

Ryan Dodge:

early in the days of Top Chef.

Ryan Dodge:

Do you guys know the show?

Ryan Dodge:

Top Chef?

Ryan Dodge:

Sure.

Ryan Dodge:

Mm-hmm.

Ryan Dodge:

. There was a contestant that had gotten booted from Top Chef early in the, like,

Ryan Dodge:

first or second season that was there, and literally was making a fool of themselves.

Ryan Dodge:

And I'll never forget coming off of the initial, like we did a

Ryan Dodge:

cooking demonstration for Gary's lobster, Chef, Chef Deco's lobster

Ryan Dodge:

dish in front of 500 people.

Ryan Dodge:

He was signing autographs.

Ryan Dodge:

And then I went into the kitchen and I literally set the tone for that day of

Ryan Dodge:

how we were gonna do 500 plates of this lobster dish with a bunch of volunteers

Ryan Dodge:

and interns and different things.

Ryan Dodge:

But I, I will never forget that night as we were talking, cuz I was watching

Ryan Dodge:

this person make a fool of themselves.

Ryan Dodge:

And I said, Hey, you know, What do you think of that show?

Ryan Dodge:

Top Chef?

Ryan Dodge:

And he said, you know, Dodge, I, I try to avoid too much television.

Ryan Dodge:

I try to avoid too much of this these things that are asked to me because if I

Ryan Dodge:

don't have control over my editing, then I may be giving off the wrong impression.

Ryan Dodge:

And so that kind of stuck with me.

Ryan Dodge:

And so I like to have control over my, my editing.

Ryan Dodge:

So I, I don't have.

Ryan Dodge:

Somebody else influencing my, or taking out of my message out of

Ryan Dodge:

the, the intent of the narrative.

Ryan Dodge:

So, Well, it's also,

Adam Lamb:

it's also, you know, a great exercise in creating healthy boundaries as

Adam Lamb:

well, which something, you know, a lot of folks, including myself in the industry.

Adam Lamb:

Haven't really, haven't really exercised , you know, what a

Adam Lamb:

healthy boundary looks like.

Adam Lamb:

But that, that'll be a topic for another show, cuz I know if I throw

Adam Lamb:

that out there, We'll keep going.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah.

Adam Lamb:

But Jim, I wanted to finish with you and perhaps share one or two tips

Adam Lamb:

that can actually keep, you know, can actually bring a team back together.

Jim Taylor:

Well, you know, there's so many places we could go here again.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

And, and, Chef Dodge.

Jim Taylor:

I mean, I can't thank you enough for all of this insight because you're,

Jim Taylor:

you're clearly incredibly passionate and, and very good at what you do.

Jim Taylor:

I think it's really, I could listen to you talk all day.

Jim Taylor:

Hopefully we get a chance to do this again.

Jim Taylor:

But, you know, I think that I've had some interesting conversations

Jim Taylor:

in the last few days, you know, with everything from corporate to

Jim Taylor:

single unit restaurant operators.

Jim Taylor:

. It's really interesting as we head into the fall and into the winter

Jim Taylor:

in some, you know, parts of the world that this employee retention

Jim Taylor:

thing just doesn't go away.

Jim Taylor:

And it's actually, I think in some markets getting harder.

Jim Taylor:

And you know, we say retention is the new cool all the time, but a lot of people

Jim Taylor:

have been starting to say back to me, it's not new and we need to find better

Jim Taylor:

ways and continue to build on this, you know, take good care of your people.

Jim Taylor:

And so, you know, going into the weekend, It's always like Chef Dodge has said

Jim Taylor:

a few times, it's, you know, if people aren't with you when you're going into

Jim Taylor:

the fire, you're, you're in trouble.

Jim Taylor:

And the fire starts probably around 5:00 PM tonight, Thursday evening.

Jim Taylor:

Right.

Jim Taylor:

So, you know, I think just as much as we can influence the industry

Jim Taylor:

to just find ways to take better care of the people that are in

Jim Taylor:

it, inspire them, protect them.

Jim Taylor:

It can be, as the four of us know, a pretty awesome career,

Jim Taylor:

if you can, you know, figure out how to navigate through it.

Jim Taylor:

So start the weekend off right.

Jim Taylor:

I.

Adam Lamb:

Yeah, I, I couldn't agree with you more.

Adam Lamb:

And it can be as simple as, you know, getting everybody together in

Adam Lamb:

a standup first thing in the morning.

Adam Lamb:

And chef, to your point, you know, this whole transparency

Adam Lamb:

and vulnerability thing, because they're looking for the humanity.

Adam Lamb:

They're looking for the emotional cues on how they're supposed to react to their

Adam Lamb:

environment and to be able to stand up and say, you know, I thought I knew what

Adam Lamb:

the hell I was doing, but you know, I, I, I don't like, I think I have an idea,

Adam Lamb:

but I need, but I actually need you.

Adam Lamb:

You have a seat at the table, and I know that we're gonna be going into

Adam Lamb:

this over the course of the weekend and we're gonna be hanging on by our

Adam Lamb:

fingernails, but the dust is gonna settle.

Adam Lamb:

And if we're not together then you know, it's gonna be much harder on everybody.

Adam Lamb:

So I couldn't agree more transparency, vulnerability, having these conversations.

Adam Lamb:

And again, to reference a lot of the, the recent studies, especially

Adam Lamb:

during the great resignation, one of the top two reasons that people chose

Adam Lamb:

to leave their current position was communication or lack their of mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

like, treat me like goddamn human being.

Adam Lamb:

Man.

Adam Lamb:

I'm not just a pair of hands, I'm not a shift on a schedule.

Adam Lamb:

I have other things going on in my life and I'm not sitting here

Adam Lamb:

trying to encourage people to.

Adam Lamb:

You know, ex accept unreasonable accommodations from their staff because

Adam Lamb:

it comes down to we're in service.

Adam Lamb:

Mm-hmm.

Adam Lamb:

. But grounding that in a, in a respectful and I say, you know, a sanctified way

Adam Lamb:

cuz what we do really is really is a special thing and there's not a lot

Adam Lamb:

of people that are called to this.

Adam Lamb:

So the people who are called, I think we owe it to them to.

Adam Lamb:

To be as humble and to be as transparent and vulnerable to them to know

Adam Lamb:

that, you know, as you progress in your career, you'll also see this.

Adam Lamb:

And so we've gotten some really great comments from folks Darren chimed in.

Adam Lamb:

Agreed.

Adam Lamb:

If you have a great culture, one of support, respect, and

Adam Lamb:

opportunity, you'll not struggle.

Adam Lamb:

Valentine said, I agree with Ryan on humility.

Adam Lamb:

Humility PAs a way to learn about people around you, feeling experienced

Adam Lamb:

shames another great conversation.

Adam Lamb:

Thanks.

Adam Lamb:

So there is definitely.

Adam Lamb:

There's definitely an ear for this type of conversation, so

Adam Lamb:

I just wanted to say thank you.

Adam Lamb:

I know that we're over time, but I wasn't gonna stop it because God juicy.

Adam Lamb:

And I look forward, we look forward to having you both back.

Adam Lamb:

And I just can't tell you how grateful you know, speak for Jim, how grateful

Adam Lamb:

we feel that you took the time out of your day to be with us and to share

Adam Lamb:

your experience and your wisdom.

Adam Lamb:

So thank you very.

Adam Lamb:

Thank you.

Ryan Dodge:

And that, yeah, the feeling's mutual.

Ryan Dodge:

I love what you guys are, are trying, The word that you're getting out

Ryan Dodge:

here is, is getting appreciated.

Adam Lamb:

Thank you very much.

Adam Lamb:

Really welcome your comments, suggestions, and smart ass remarks.

Adam Lamb:

We're gonna listen to 'em all and reply to 'em.

Adam Lamb:

So thank you very much, folks.