232 | Adam Lamb on The CULINARY MECHANIC podcast with Chef Simon Zatyrka

Hey all.

Welcome to Culinary Mechanic.

Um, I am so excited to announce that Culinary Mechanic has joined

forces with the Heritage Radio Network out of New York City.

I just can't even begin to tell you how much I think this is going to be.

Great things for Culinary mechanic.

Um.

But also I think we can add something cool to, to heritage, so that, that's awesome.

Um, and to get it all kicked off, um, I ended up recording an

episode of Culinary Mechanic with Chef Adam Lamb of Chef Life Radio.

And quite honestly, I don't remember whether it was before or after, but

we did an episode of Chef Life Radio, uh, a little podcast swap action and.

We, after both of us listening to, to both episodes.

We realized, boy, we have something cool.

And just really interesting to see the contrast of styles and um, the interesting

conversations that just unfolded.

Um, I believe that Chef Adam, um, already created another episode that was just a

riff off of our conversation, and he found it to be, um, dare I say, inspirational,

the conversation that we had.

So.

What follows is, uh, two chefs sitting back talking about the things that

have been and the things that can be, and the things that are, um, and in

all honesty, I, I think I started the recorder and, and then it just happened.

There was no, there's usually a welcome and, you know, welcome to this person.

And the whole intro, like casual intro thing, and.

We just started talking and we never got to it.

And I realized, well, we're just gonna have to do the thing.

And so that's why you get, um, a little bit different of an intro today.

But, um, once again, this is Adam Lamb and myself, um, talking

through Chef Life, so please enjoy.

You're listening to Heritage Radio Network.

I.

From kitchen chaos to well-oiled machines.

Get ready for newfangled technology and old school Know-how

stories and a good bit of fun.

I'm Simon, and this is called Area Mechanic.

, Adam: you wanna know the Batman origin story?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um.

You know, there was a, uh, it's so hokey, um, because where I lived in

Hammond, Indiana, which was right between like Chicago and Gary.

My dad was a college professor and, uh, on his breaks and at lunchtime he would

go to a local restaurant, which is called The Big Wheel on Indianapolis Boulevard.

Uh, kind of been there forever and.

I was always kind of curious of who my dad was out in the public.

Right.

I had never seen him teach.

Right.

You know, all I knew about him was like my experience at home, which

was, you know, sometimes rocky.

So, uh, when the opportunity came up for a dishwasher position, I took it.

So I started working at the, at the, at the big wheel.

As a dishwasher hating life, man.

I mean, they beat the shit outta those pans.

I'd be scrubbing them, trying to get 'em clean.

I think, uh, even today there's probably a stack of 12 inch saute pans stuck

up in the, in the popcorn ceiling that I just refuse to finish up.

But, um, I.

And sometimes I would like my daddy, he'd sit at the, he'd sit at the

counter and, uh, there was, uh, the main cook, her name was Artelia White.

She had a gold tooth in front, and she worked the wheel, you know, back in the

day when there was a physical wheel.

And she would sit there in the window and, and just kind of

chat back and forth with my dad.

And he was kind of, you know, chatty up with the waitresses

and they, oh, Dr. And so, uh.

I'm kind of just trucking through there.

On one Friday night, I'm walking past the kitchen door and it was right in

the middle of service and the two women, Artelia White and this really, really

thin, severe woman who I'd never heard her speak out loud, Artelia was the

one that was always barking orders and stuff, but it was just this one weird

moment where I turned my head and I saw the two women engaged in this dance.

Where there was pans and steam and food and they, they went together and passed.

Like they moved in such a dance that they didn't communicate anything outwardly.

But it was so smooth and beautiful in that one moment.

And I turned away and I said, I don't know what the hell that is,

ma'am, but I gotta get me some.

So yeah, I, I tried doing other things.

I, I. Sold clothes.

I sold to McCann shoes, but it just seemed like every time I came back

to working in a kitchen and the first time I got a Cook's job was

at a uh, Greek restaurant in a mall.

And, uh, the guy says to me, so you know how to clean beef tenderloins, right?

And I said, oh yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure.

And, uh, the first day there's a, another dude standing next to me.

We got our cutting boards and a stack of, you know, a case of pismos and I'm

kind of like watching out of the corner of my eye to see how he's doing it.

And I'm trying to mimic what he's doing.

And I think like there was more meat than silver skin in the

garbage can at, at that first one.

I mean, I just hacked the shit out of it.

I seem to learn really, really fast.

And the thing that struck me was the sense of community in the kitchen.

Like that's the first thing that really pulled me in was this kind of idea of

the island of misfit toys where, you know, it didn't matter where you came

from, what you did, uh, that as long as you could hold down your station and

work hard, um, you, you were accepted.

And so, absolutely.

That's kind of the thing that, that relational connection to me has been the

thing that's always driven my career.

I never really thought I had this idea of like a specific type of cuisine

that was gonna be Adam or, or, you know, trying to be avant garde or,

uh, trying to be ahead of the curve.

Although when I moved to South Florida that were a group of us, uh, that were

following the Mango Gang, which was, you know, Alan Susser and Norma Van Aiken,

and we were kind of like the ascendant.

Group of chefs.

And so that's when Floridian cuisine was really hot and stuff like that, so Right.

Um, got in the middle of that, but it always came down to like the crew, like

feeling part of the crew and feeling what that was like to go through.

I. Hell and high water through a shift only to find out at the end that

there was, there were no bring backs.

It was a perfect score.

And you look around at one another and you go, wow, did we just do that?

Because there's always that one moment in this shift in the peak point where like

time compression just comes and everything slows down, and you feel like right on

the edge of everything going sideways.

And somehow it's always the team that pulls us through, right?

And so,

I've been motivated by that type of passion and compassion all through

my career, and it's been a, a labor of love and it's, the industry has

given me so much opportunity, uh, to learn and to experiment and to be

different versions of myself because I was very focused on becoming the

Apex predator in the Punch Bowl from.

From where I grew up in Hammond, Indiana, I understood that if I

wanted to be a chef, I had to kind of hop jobs CAE City, south Chicago.

If I was gonna get up in the city, that's where I could be a chef.

And, uh, I got, as far as CAE City before, uh, before I

like, just was shaking my head.

I was a sous chef at a, at a country club and, uh, the executive chef was a

woman and she decided to visit upon me every slight, every ill that had been.

She had had to suffer.

So I was basically the emotional whipping post for the entire group of men.

And I learned very, very early on that um, having the feminine in

the kitchen is a really good thing.

Like it provides balance in so many ways.

And so every very, my very first executive chef job, my sous chef

was, uh, a woman and she saved my ass from getting fired several times.

And she said, we had a goodbye card for me after a year and a half.

And she said to me, lamb, you know, you weren't a very good chef when you started,

uh, but you turned into a pretty good one.

And coming from Lori Walker, I took that high praise man.

For sure.

That's good stuff.

You know, I, I listened to that and I go, and I just remember somebody I, I, I was

talking to not too long ago, say to me, you know, kitchen, kitchens in some ways.

Especially back in the day where like the last true meritocracy, right?

Yep.

It's like everything.

It doesn't matter if you had green.

Well, no, it didn't matter if you had green hair or if you had a mohawk or

nowadays it's like you got piercings, you got tattoos, whatever that is.

It, it really, it's like kick ass in the kitchen, you know, and, and kick

ass on your station and keep it clean.

You're gold, you know?

Uh, talk about like the perfect score.

I worked in a steakhouse back, gosh, so that was, yeah, mid nineties and the, it

was all wood fire back when I, it wasn't, that wasn't, um, I. It wasn't as popular.

Right.

And instead of being this sort of, the, the, the more shallow grates, these grates

were, oh, they were easily 32 inches deep.

So you, you had long tongs and you were reaching back over a fire to get

that like well done back in the corner.

You know, you also had a bein Maria

of ice water to stick your hand in, right?

Oh,

yes.

Oh, yes.

And you had, you had the big ingredient bins at your feet with soaked wood.

So you were, so it was s smokey.

Mm-hmm.

And you couldn't see because you were constantly creating that, like you're

trying to cool temper that fire with a piece of wood so that you get some

smoke and really get everything going.

And at the end of the night, you know, you'd, you'd, you'd be cla if you were

on the grill, you'd be clamoring to the, to the chef or to the sous chef to say.

What, like how to do Oh, well you, right, you had, 'cause they wouldn't

in the middle of service, you'd never, you'd never know because we

were just moving too fast, you know?

Um, and I'll never forget, I was one day the, the grill cook, he had a rough one

and I just looked at the guy standing next to me and I was the guy who was sauce and

plates and remember timbo of rice, right?

Pack in the rice, a little butter inside that cup

and.

Right.

The confetti on the rim, that was back in the day with the timbo.

Oh

man.

This, this was, this was one step removed from that because

we had nothing on the plate.

Right.

There was no garnish.

It was a steakhouse.

We plated everything in the window.

So the plates were lightning hot.

And you, your, the inside of your forearms were just scars constantly.

Yeah.

It was years before I got rid of those things.

Um.

And so I, I just, I thought I had the easy job, right?

I'm the sauce guy.

I make sauces.

I know how to learn how to do that, and it's cool.

And I said to the, the guy sort of in the middle, you know, he was,

he helped plate and everything.

I was like, man, I, I don't know if I could do that.

And this son of a bitch turns to the chef at after service and he goes,

Simon doesn't think he could grill.

So I walk in the next day, it's a Wednesday night, and

I, I, there you go, man.

You know, I, I shook hands with the chef.

Said, good afternoon, sir. And he said, good afternoon, you're on the grill today.

I was like, what?

I turned and I look at Tony.

I was like, what did you do?

Like you're the only person I said that.

He's like, he's like, well, I just told him that you didn't think you had it.

And so I'd never worked that grill.

I'd worked multiple grills throughout the previous four or five, six years and.

At the end of the night, I turned and I looked, and he goes, if it wasn't

for the fact that the other guy would cry every day, if he didn't get to

be on the grill, I'd put you on the grill because there was less drama.

And like, right.

You, you just did it.

And you were so scared to screw up that you didn't, you just, you

were, you were like a machine.

And I was like, thank you.

He goes, now get back to your station.

I don't know about you, but I did not get into the restaurant business to spend

all my time in a cramp little office.

I love being in the kitchen, out on the floor.

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You know that you bring up a great point, man, that you know, that

fear of fucking up, you know, is can serve you really, really well, man.

Because now all of a sudden, like, I think just like anything else, man, once we

start getting complacent and comfortable, that's when the trouble starts.

I. But as long as we're like approaching things with a certain

amount of, uh, you know, I, I would replace probably fear with reverence.

I was thinking about our conversation today and, uh, one of the things

that kept popping up in my head was this idea of presence, right?

Like what makes a great chef?

Um, and we can talk about, you know, leadership and all this other stuff,

but I think really what separates the good from the Great is this

idea of being completely present in the moment, whether they're within.

Mm-hmm.

Or whether they're with, you know, building a dish or where

they're out with the guests.

You know, they're, they're like, nothing else exists except for that moment, right?

Yeah.

Everything's passes going all around them.

But if they can just be present in that one moment, I, an, uh,

opportunity to, to do that.

During Covid, there was a server who was like on the verge of breakdown and we were

walking back and forth in this hallway and I just stopped her and I said, listen,

I just need you to just let it all out.

I, you know.

I gotcha.

And people were walking past and I'm like, I don't care about them.

Like, I didn't care about whether service was starting or anything.

Like for me, the most important thing in that moment was being there for her.

Like it didn't end up that I, that we solved anything or that it, you know,

that it made her feel any better.

But I think in that one moment she got that I was willing to listen to

her regardless of whether I had a, like, um, a solution for her or not.

It was kind of like.

Bringing me back to this idea of like, when we can have that presence in every

moment of our day, man, the great day.

Yeah.

You know, I think, I think for me, like I, I, I had a time in my sous chef career,

you know, it was probably four or five years long where I was this spazz man.

Like, things would hit me in the face and I'd be like, oh my God.

You know, like the sky is falling and.

I had a chef who.

He had moments of zen-like clarity.

He didn't have a lot of them 'cause he was pretty high.

You know, he had come from one, he come from one of those cultures, right?

That, and I had spent time in the same company, but one of those cultures where

um, it was openly said that like, if you're brilliant, asshole is tolerated.

Right?

Yeah.

And so and so the nuclear would come to him pretty fast.

Like he'd be calm, he'd be calm, he'd be like the, and he was a tall

dude, he's probably six three, right?

Bald head.

He was a swimmer, so he had shoulders wide as as Kansas.

And he just had this hay, had a presence.

And there was moments where I would just be like, how are you so calm right now?

Like, how do you do that?

And.

He, you know, but then he would just rock past that and just go into like the

screaming, yelling, like pulling out.

Harry didn't have, yeah.

And I asked him one day and he said, Simon, if you.

Are committed to success, you'll, you will quickly see that the, the attitude,

the demeanor, the fear, all those things that, that, that are on the face of

your team is a direct mirror of you.

So if you can stay calm, they can stay calm.

And I said, how come you can't stay calm?

He said, I just, I, I, I try.

He goes, I really try.

He goes, and I know I have some good moments, but I, I just, shit.

And I was like, okay, I got it.

And it took me a few years to get past that experience, right?

Like just a couple more kitchens and all of a sudden I had someone say.

Tonight was kind of crazy.

How, how are you so calm?

And I thought, oh my, I did it.

And I, and I really think you're right.

It's, it's being clear about exactly where you are in that moment and what

is best for my, I stopped thinking about myself and I started thinking about my

team more and how they were reacting to my spas or, or my lack of spas, you know?

And now, now I tell people.

Hey man, I want you to be the eye of the hurricane.

I want you to be that calm center where everything around you is

just flying outta control, but you're calm and, and thinking.

I. What next steps are so that you can direct that craziness,

you know?

Sure.

Yeah.

Because there's a way to harness that energy that's happening

all around you and direct it.

Yeah.

But never gonna be from a point of you being that excited and energetic Right.

To drop to your knowing and go, okay, so this is where it's

gonna go, and how do I get there?

Um, you know, I'll bet any amount of money that, that night when you

were on that fir on that grill, that first time, you were absolutely

present, everything that was going on.

You knew everything was on, like there was nothing that was gonna

carry your attention away from them.

Well, and the other part was the, the guy who was normally

on the grill was on my station and he was stuck and he was, he was.

Half coaching, half heckling me.

He's like, come on, little boy.

Come on little boy.

You can do it.

But he was also digging me a little bit here and there, you know?

Sure.

Um, and so I was determined.

I was like, well, I know how to cook steaks.

I'm just afraid right now.

'cause this is a bigger, this is a bigger pond, you know?

I mean, and this was a place that was doing in the nineties was doing

64 ounce double bone and rib chops.

Those are massive.

Dude, that's a, that's a, that's something you make for Sunday dinner, you know?

Yeah.

And the thing about solid wood fuel man, is that.

That grill's got a life of its own man.

There's the hot spots and the cool spots and you know, it changes with

like every log you throw in there.

So if you're not like watching everything and like figuring it out

constantly, it's a constant evolution of like, where am I going now?

What's happening over here?

Like, where am I gonna move?

And so a completely different from any other type of fuel.

And there is certainly an art.

There are a couple restaurants out.

Uh.

Out in, uh, California, like, uh, I was out where they filmed the movie.

Um, the movie Sideways.

The Wine movie.

Yep, yep, yep.

Remember?

Uh, that's Ojai.

No.

Um, sorry.

No Robles.

That's Passa Robles.

No, it's, yeah.

Uh, LOOC.

Uh, Buin.

Right.

There you go.

So there's a couple restaurants right outside of Builtin that are these huge

warehouses, um, that use those huge.

I mean, the grate itself is hanging from the ceiling.

You can lift it up and lift it down over the Oh, wow.

And these guys, these three guys, just because there's a glass window there and

you can sit and watch these guys work.

It's mesmerizing, dude.

I mean, it's just like those guys are worth every penny that they get paid.

'cause it, it comes out the product.

And to your point, plates are clean.

There's nothing on it.

It's just like, here's your beauty right there, man.

Fantastic stuff,

man.

That was the, the space where the filet would sit on the toast round and if

it bled through the toe, if there was blood on the plate, you were replating.

Yeah.

Oh,

I mean, today, I, and again, folks actually know that they

gotta let that stuff rest, right?

Let it rest before you played it.

Please.

Uh, I learned those lessons.

Boy, I learned those lessons, you know, and, and, and I, I, I, as at the

end of my tenure there, I was, I was confident enough in, uh, in plating that

I would look at the chef and go, Hey.

Like, for some reason he didn't get those, those two ribeyes on, and now they need to

rest, so we're gonna do that next again.

He's like, no, I want that.

I'm like, no chef, because if I do it, I'm, I'm gonna do it three times.

I'm gonna plate it three times instead of just giving you what

you want the first time and out.

And, you know, he, the, thankfully the chef and I were.

We were pretty good friends, right?

And so he, he, he learned that I was growing really quickly and, you

know, um, but after like two years of that I was like, okay, I gotta go.

I like, that was an, that was such an intense environment.

I wanted to learn more about food.

Um.

I think for me, like those were days when I couldn't get a pan in my hand.

I'd walk in and they'd see grill cook, uh, and I was just stuck on the grill.

I started lying, right?

Like, what do you do?

I'm a saute cook, you know?

And the first time I did that was rough, but I, I learned, you

know, I was like, uh, I am like, uh, I'm just a little rusty.

Uh, you know?

Right, right.

Exactly.

The cook training me would, would show me and.

Um, I mean, I was in Albuquerque, New Mexico in the nineties.

It wasn't exactly a food mecca, you know?

Sure.

Um, there's a couple places, but

man, um, I like.

If I could just round back to that first experience.

Yes, sir. Working a Greek restaurant.

You know, I, I learned a lot there.

Um, and one of the things that I learned had nothing really to do with cooking,

but the owner, uh, about 10 45 every morning would tell me, okay, load up

the griddle, uh, with liver and onions.

And I'm like, what?

Now?

You gotta understand liver and onions was not on the menu.

But he had me do tire, you know, 36 inch griddle with liver and

onions right before the doors open.

And after a couple of times I said, well, if we're, this is not

on the menu, why are we doing it?

He said, did you ever smell it outside in the, in the hallway?

And I'm like, no.

So then he had me go out into the hallway in this mall.

And as a walking past, you know, you don't really know if it's liver and onion, like

all you know is you start salivating.

And that's how he would get people ice to come in to have.

And I'll tell you, man, I remember that 20 years later when I was at a seafood

restaurant in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

And what I would do is right at the hostess stand, I would put, uh, a, uh, a

little burner with a pot of oil and herbs, you know, rosemary, garlic, that, and

on a, just on a slow burn and have that kinda waft while people walked in, man.

That's, that's really cool.

Like when you can start exciting those senses.

That's, I was reflecting on this the other day as well.

I was like, when you're in the kitchen, like you have to use

every single one of your senses.

Like you can't have earbuds in 'cause you gotta listen to shit in the pan.

You know, you can't like, yeah.

Every single sense of yours, it's heightened and it becomes

developed in such a way that you can s you can tell when.

You could see a pan and know that something's not happening, right,

because you can't hear it or you can't see it in a particular way.

And I think a lot of us don't really, don't really give ourselves

credit for the hypersensitivity that we become accustomed to.

Like that is part of what we do, so that when we go out into the real world

or the other world, uh, to take a job somewhere else, our sensors are like,

well, what do you want me to do now, man?

Yeah.

I mean, being able, when you start to understand that, like something

that sauteing has a higher pitch when it's starting to burn.

Mm. Right.

Um, and it took me a while to figure that one out and I learned

it with mushrooms and so Oh yeah.

The

tweak this

week, so Right.

So when all the, when all of the moisture goes out.

Basically what happens is when when you boil all the moisture out of the

mushroom, now it's just frying, right?

And it makes a different pop.

And I, and when I learned that, I was like.

I was like, I started like turning up the heat on mushrooms to listen to 'em.

Right.

And then, so now I'll be at home, you know, and I'll be cooking and

maybe I'll like, uh, that's got a few minutes and I'll walk around

the corner into the living room.

And now it's like, oh wait, I can hear the, the tone has changed.

Time to go back.

And, and the first time I did that, I think in a professional kitchen, somebody

looked at me like, how did you do that?

I'm like, listen to it.

It's, it's gonna tell you the story.

Yeah, right.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You know, you also, like, I learned it on the flat top too, because like this one

cook liked to cook at, like, he would, he was scared of making mistakes, so

he would turn the flat top down to like 3 40, 3 50, and I'm like, that thing

needs to be ripping at like four 50.

Like, otherwise you don't get the series.

Like, no, no, I overcooked things.

Then

there's no caramelization, there's no mal.

I'm, I'm

like, no, no, no.

You have to, you have to be a better timer.

Then I said, wait longer to fire things.

He's like, what?

It, what?

I'm like, Hey, man.

Like, like slow is smooth.

Smooth is fast.

Don't, don't, don't equate fast with, with good.

Right, right.

You know, it'll, it'll.

Yeah, but to your point, stage it all, like now you've got your proteins

sitting in front of you and now you're all just waiting for a pickup and

then it's bang go instead of like, I, you know, I see kitchens that, uh,

employ KDS systems and they don't, um, split their tickets up by station.

So every ticket goes to every station, and what I see happen is the

cooks will get ahead of themselves and start firing stuff without.

Really firing it in order to make it come up.

And um, you know, you see some really crazy stuff on the grill where these

guys are just hammering this meat just to get it out in under 15 minutes when

in fact that's probably an unrealistic expectation for a 16 ounce prime ribeye.

You know what I'm saying?

Like that is not doing that meet any justice.

So I like there was a place in Fort Lauderdale that, uh, seafood

re the same seafood restaurant.

Yeah, I had the only printer as an expo.

Nobody else had any tickets and I had seven stations and we did

750 to a thousand covers a night, and we never missed a beat.

But you get to be really, really good at calling out stations and, and pick up.

Now you might need, you know, three busboy behind you to boost trays

because it's coming out so fast.

But you know, you'd getting to dictate windows and stuff, but

it really start to appreciate.

How long it actually takes to saute a pan.

Scallops, you know, versus growing a piece of fish.

And when that's, now it's trying to pick up, because our job is to make

sure that that food is at the height of perfection, not only from a raw

state, but also from a cook state at the time to get it to the table.

Because after that, there's declining.

Uh, benefit to like, now it's sitting in the plate now, now the juice is

pooling, like for, especially for scalps.

So it's a real art form that I think, again, um, not a lot of people

appreciate and I don't think we give ourselves enough credit for.

Yeah.

Adam, I love how when you and I talk like you, you strike such deep things

in my brain and I wanna completely shift gears and talk about exactly

what you just said, which is.

In today's world, and I want anybody who's listening or watching out there

to understand that KDS is more, more prevalent than it ever has been before.

Kitchen display system, it screens instead of tickets and it's taking away

some of the art of expediting, right?

We're we're seeing more things get split up onto things and I think that

my point that I wanna make here is.

It needs to be clear in the minds of the proprietors, the owners, the

chefs, the, the gen, the dining room managers, that this is a new art, right?

This is a new skill.

Designing a menu that comes through a KDS system and that that is

coordinated and comes together is a completely different thing.

And yeah.

I don't think that everybody realizes that when they, when they

get their fancy new technology.

'cause everybody's excited about this shit and I love it.

Right?

Sure.

Like I, I was a part of a team that converted seven restaurants

in three months to KDS.

Mm-hmm.

But the first ones were tough, man.

The first one, it was like, oh, okay.

And you had to find new ways of doing things because all of a sudden

each cook, like in this place, each cook had only their stuff.

Yeah.

Right.

Which is the way should, and so we

did some things.

Yes, we did some things where we, we audited the menu a little bit, edited

the menu a little bit so that there was, if there was anything that was

really long, we were looking for ways that we could, without sacrificing

quality speed up production.

You know, and we still had them.

We still had like you have if beef fajitas and they want 'em all done.

Well then, um, that it was the responsibility of that cook to

scream down to the other side and go, Hey, just wait on table 61.

I don't know what you're doing, but I'm not there yet.

I'll give you five and at five everything can go flying

forward, you know, but I think.

I think it's really important to understand that how technology

is changing what we old guys have done for decades, right?

It's not the same, it's not the same madness.

It's a new madness.

Yeah.

I, I couldn't agree with you more, Simon.

Uh, the first thing I, I guess I wanna say is I'm a big

proponent of technology, right?

Mm-hmm.

I think that there is a, a place.

Uh, for it in all our operations.

And my rule of thumb is, is if it will provide me more opportunity

to be front facing to the guest, then I will, I'll look at that.

But if it takes me more time to being in the office, I don't want to know.

So, to your point about KDS, I think even in the best of times, like

when it went from, you know, expo only having to the printer, now,

now every station has a printer.

I think the same thing applies from KDS.

I don't think KDS.

Which is an incredibly dynamic system, and to your point, needs some adjustment.

I don't think that that means that you go without a fucking expediter.

I think the expediter is even more essential then because all you're doing

is letting the cooks know that they've got 12 chicken all day on their station.

Right?

That's probably the best thing that it does.

Now you can look down and you can see one of the problems with KDS is if you.

Have, um, say most pantry stations also have their dessert

stations incorporated to that.

Well, if you've got three, six tops and four, two tops and all you've got, you're

looking at this window and all you've got is salads and stuff showing, and all of

a sudden you've got desserts that pop up.

I. The expectation is the dessert should go out before the six top goes out

because you don't want that two top.

So there's that nuance where an expeditor can actually be helping

the guys going, okay, wait a second.

If you scroll, like click through your screen.

There's one at the bottom.

We need to get that out first.

So I don't think it's, um.

I think it's a great addendum too, but I, I think anybody who thinks that they

shouldn't have an expeditor is missing point because again, there's all kinds

of garnish, there's all kinds of, uh, sauces and stuff that need to happen,

and really a high, high value expo person can take care of a lot of that,

and it shouldn't necessarily only be like an assistant manager front of the

house manager who's doing it because he's got extra time on his hands.

This needs to be a right.

Position that's very well thought out and valued because it can

make or break a lot of operations.

Yeah.

Just from food point standpoint, I mean, we, we had, I worked for a company

for, for a while and it was a short window, but boy, it was a neat one.

And they turned the expo into the fq, which was the food quality specialist,

and it was kind of an interesting thing.

Sure.

It was a, wasn't quite a full big corporate move.

Um, but it, it.

They, they loved it and then they started looking at the additional

labor that we were incurring.

'cause we weren't, we weren't just bringing in a, an

experienced bus boy to do it.

Right.

Like, that's what a Sure, that's what a lot of times happens.

You get on the outside of an, you get an expo and he's, he's

like the best bus boy, right.

A food runner.

I'm a best food runner.

Um, and so what we were doing was really taking guy, guys and gals who were

line supervisor, junior sous, chef, qual, like they were good cooks, right?

And I used it as a lever because I could go and then take that expo position over.

When things got deep, and I could send that cook in, I could send that person

into the line and go here, dig them out.

Or I could get back behind the line and talk directly to that

person and help dig, right?

Well, we used, we used to call that the hammer in the anvil, right?

So you've got that one that's a floater in the on the line, and

you're like, directing, okay, go down a saute because we're back.

Like, and you're not, you're providing assistance to that

leverage in that particular point.

And I think, uh, that food quality thing.

What a great benefit.

Like I'm saute cook, I've been getting them shit kicked outta me for three

weeks straight and I get to go do expo.

I get to do food quality one night.

Like it's an additional benefit we can provide our cooks and I, I mean,

the implication is that that person knows there's, knows the food so well.

Not only their station, but all the stations.

They have the critical eye and skill to be able to look at stuff

and know if it's right or not.

And I think that's a great acknowledgement for somebody who, you know, has been

in the trenches and has an opportunity to like just take a breath and to your

point, you know, gets in the weeds.

That time compression where everything gets slammed.

I. I opened up a restaurant in the, in a movie theater in Boca Raton, Florida.

The very first time a full service restaurant was in a movie theater, 16 inch

loves seats in these balconies, and there was like 150 seats in the bistro, and then

another 150 seats in the back, more formal dining room, and then some other stuff.

We used to do the concessions, but every night was like.

You got people who've got a place to go, they sit down, they come in late, okay, my

movie starts at eight, can I get my food?

Like, we had to go through that every single night.

And I remember quite clearly, man, 7 45 1 night on a Saturday,

I just let the machine run.

I mean, the tickets were just, they were piling up on the floor because

we just needed a minute to regroup.

And this is like 10 guys on the line, on five stations, and they're beat nasa.

We need two expos, four food runners, because again, there's

a time compression now and then.

20 minutes later, it's dead quiet in the kitchen and you

know it's gonna ramp up again.

So that opportunity to give everybody a break and a breather,

I think is really important, man.

Oh yeah, the, the master reset button is, is key.

I, I learned that from getting crushed at this one seafood

restaurant here in Seattle.

Just, and what I learned to do was make eye contact with my favorite busboy

and go, and I'd make the kind of a, like the, the drinking, uh, gesture.

And he'd go and grab a full tray of.

Of cups for the, for the kitchen and fill 'em with water.

And then he'd let me know that he was there and he'd, he'd come

down the I'd say, okay, come on.

And he'd just walk down the line handing out waters.

And I would make everybody stop for 30 seconds.

And it was usually when we were just getting just destroyed.

And the first time that happened, the GM looked at me and she

said, what are you doing?

Why are you stopping?

I was like, because we're not,

we're, we're, we're like, not machine spitting

out, you know, we're, we're in the, we're in the, we're in the

chavelle ss just burning our tires, man.

We're not going anywhere.

Like everybody's sputtering.

Everybody's like stupid right now.

So I would make, I would make the saute cook just turn off its burners.

Like it's you.

Take your shit out like on the grill.

Grab a sheet pan, put everything on that sheet pan for 30 seconds.

Drink your water all the way down.

Hand the cup back to Jimmy, and then, okay.

Are you ready?

Sweet.

First three tickets.

Next three tickets, next three tickets.

And, and then that last service would go and everybody would high five.

And we would, we would slay it and then get ready for the nine o'clock rush.

This comes, this comes right back to like the, the underlying theme

of the things that we were talking about, like the chef as leader, right?

To be able to have.

That presence of mind are like going, we are on the verge, man.

We are the, like the car is tipping over on two wheels right now.

And if I don't pull back, not in a crazy way, like not like, ah, damn, I can't, no.

Just to be able to pull back just for a few moments.

And to your point, it just takes a moment to, to reset.

And everybody goes, what?

Right.

Okay.

And then they double down in their effort.

But if we're not the ones leading emotionally.

Everybody's keying on us.

What is he gonna lose his shit now?

Like, do I need to lose my shit or no?

Like, no, dude, we're just gonna have a glass of water now.

That's all we're gonna do.

No, uh, I, I've, I've, since those days, and that was probably 15 years ago,

I've realized that it restores humanity.

Sure it does.

It is

really what it does.

It really restores you stop being that.

A machine or that robot for the, for the business.

And you are, you're a cook.

And it's hard, you know?

And, and I think that once I learned that, I started teaching it, and I

saw it happen a couple times where the sous chef would just be like.

Get some water, get some water, you know, get, get cups of water.

Like, like he was scared to do it.

And I saw him do it and he's like, everybody drank.

We're like, it was the end of a stupid lunch rush in a, in a really

busy downtown, like the Amazon, you know, Amazon is right above us.

And like, oh, they were tough boy.

They, they were demanding folks, but he, he was like, you know, I remember I, I

showed up and I was a multi-unit at the time, so I showed up at the end of lunch

and he's like, I did the reset thing.

Like whispered to me, he's like, I did it.

I'm like, how'd it go?

He's like, so good.

Everybody thanked me, including, including the, the, the expo and

the food runners who were confused.

They were just, they had an opportunity to like clear the window of things

that were there and get, and they weren't being pushed and, and overrun.

You know, it's such a weird thing that, to think that 45 seconds

to a minute can do that, but it really, I think it's, I think it's.

It's hurt.

Listen, when, when you, when you said it restores humanity, that hits

something in my heart because, you know, I've been that person on the line.

And when you start to feel like a machine, like you start

off like, yeah, I'm a machine.

Yeah, man.

But then after a while, man, you're like, like, like the fuck, man.

I'm not a machine.

I'm a goddamn like da da da.

And you start to really do that dance of like.

Losing your shit walking off the line, just like whatever it is.

And in those moments, they don't come very often, but when those moments come,

to have someone who's gonna restore the humanity with a glass of water or a

reset or just wait to call tickets for for a minute or whatever that is, brings

me back to like, no, this is something, this is something I do because I love

and, um, and restoring my humanity reconnects me to the reason why I love it.

Right, because like I said, I got into it for the humanity.

I got in it for the connection.

I got into it for like the bonds that happen under, under intense pressure.

You know, that that idea of perturbation where pressure,

pressure, pressure, pressure, that's how a piece of coal becomes

a piece of, uh, you know, a diamond.

But that perturbation can only last so long before there's a

release or be becomes an explosion.

And so to your point, I think, uh.

That comes from wisdom, that comes from maturity, that comes from experience,

comes from being there and, um, it's, um, I think it's a perspective, uh,

that many more people should share.

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think the one for me that really, like, as

I've gotten older, I start to realize.

In inciting a little bit of fear and creating a a a a

pressure cooker environment.

It only works to a certain point and I start, I've now started to think

about it like the tachometer in my car.

There's a red line there.

And up to that point, you can create some great stuff, right?

Like you can, you can motivate people to go fast and hard, but at

some point, like you hit red line and then it starts to go down.

And the reality for me is you can only get people to make great food.

At that red line for a few, for a little while because at some point,

stressed, cooks don't make better food.

Anxious cooks who are in fear of their job don't make better food.

I don't care what anybody says.

Like there's a point.

Yes, you can do it.

And, and we've seen it and, and it's glamorized in on TV sometimes

our buddy Gordon Ramsey has, has made a career out of showing that.

Sure.

But that's a shtick.

It and it totally is like, I, I got to be behind the scenes years ago,

um, on the set of the, the second season of Hell's Kitchen, and that

guy was, he was instructing people to turn off ovens and turn off a ac

just to turn up the heat on people.

Right, exactly.

So that's show, and I think that people need to understand that.

Right.

But.

There's on, there's a breaking point.

There's a, there's a red line to a human's capacity to do great stuff, right?

Under, under that much pressure.

I think that right learning, that's why, you know, people are being

nicer and kinder and, and I think hopefully more focused on standards

rather than, than just greatness.

Right.

Because, um.

It is, it is damaging at some point to people's psyche.

And we, you've, you've talked about it for years, I've talked about it

for years, but I think that remind, remembering that we are human beings

that are actually like trying to do something that we are passionate and love.

Right?

Yeah.

And I, I implore people nowadays to ask themselves, so was that fun?

Because if it wasn't fun, like how do we make it fun again?

Right.

Yeah.

What's

the point of doing it?

I mean, I like that I always stand by this, like this industry, um, uh, is hard.

Uh, and that's okay.

It just doesn't have to be harsh.

Yes.

Right?

Yes.

Like the fact that we are held to a higher standard, that, that we

are, you know, asked to do things with our mind and body and spirit.

Uh, that push us outside of our comfort zone, I think serves us

overall, uh, to, to understand what resiliency and adaptability might

mean in our personal lives as well.

Like, it's okay that it's hard.

It just doesn't have to be harsh.

Right?

And that's where it comes from.

Like, don't, like don't be an asshole, but don't be a doormat either, right?

Yeah.

And the only way you can bridge that gap is by manage, like leading with

standards, period, end of story.

Because anything else is just leading by personality and then you're up to, well,

to whether I feel good or I feel bad.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

I've been joking recently that I wanted that my, my first book is

gonna be, Hey, chef, don't Be a Dick

for a while.

For a while in a series of posts called Don't Be a Dick Like Me.

All right, chef Adam Lamb.

Hey brother.

Uh, as usual con the conversation with you and I just goes

in, in wonderful directions.

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you coming to play in

my little sandbox of the world.

Thank you.

Um.

Tell us how we find you out there in the

Sure.

Um, well, the podcast is called Chef Life Radio.

Uh, the website is chef life coaching.com, or you can hit me up on LinkedIn,

uh, where I have a, a presence.

And of course on the other I. Uh, other sites, but primarily in LinkedIn for sure.

DM me.

If, you know, you listen to the show and you got a kick

out of it, please let us know.

Um, we're always happy for that.

And if you have any questions, you know, you can call me at (828) 407-3359.

Awesome.

Thank you brother.

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